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	<title>Comments on: Is PPC Canabalising your Brand Traffic?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html</link>
	<description>SEO Blog &#38; Search Engine Marketing News</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 07:37:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Brand bidding vs None &#171; Mindshare UK Search- A fresh view</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-85420</link>
		<dc:creator>Brand bidding vs None &#171; Mindshare UK Search- A fresh view</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-85420</guid>
		<description>[...] his first post he talks about how he proposed to run the test. He took a month and segmented by hour. Alternating [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] his first post he talks about how he proposed to run the test. He took a month and segmented by hour. Alternating [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Value of AdWords Brand Bidding &#124; SEOptimise</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-84488</link>
		<dc:creator>The Value of AdWords Brand Bidding &#124; SEOptimise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 16:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-84488</guid>
		<description>[...] my last post I talked about a method for testing the value of using AdWords on your brand. The results are now [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my last post I talked about a method for testing the value of using AdWords on your brand. The results are now [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Fergie</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81995</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Fergie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81995</guid>
		<description>@David Cheers. Sounds like an interesting tactic. Thanks for the insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David Cheers. Sounds like an interesting tactic. Thanks for the insight.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81994</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81994</guid>
		<description>@Richard have used a combination depending if client is running a manual campaign or using a bid management platform, as sometimes according to the reports run later Google ignores both...

As you know reducing bid rate can do a similar job, but currently i have one test campaign that Google seems to be going out of its way to break this technique, bid too low, not shown on first page increase bids get top positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard have used a combination depending if client is running a manual campaign or using a bid management platform, as sometimes according to the reports run later Google ignores both&#8230;</p>
<p>As you know reducing bid rate can do a similar job, but currently i have one test campaign that Google seems to be going out of its way to break this technique, bid too low, not shown on first page increase bids get top positions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ulf Weihbold</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81993</link>
		<dc:creator>Ulf Weihbold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81993</guid>
		<description>@richard the main incremental value i had experience with, were the adwords sitelinks: there it&#039;s up to me to decide what to offer the user, not up to google..

advertising special promotions there raises CTRs and CVRs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@richard the main incremental value i had experience with, were the adwords sitelinks: there it&#8217;s up to me to decide what to offer the user, not up to google..</p>
<p>advertising special promotions there raises CTRs and CVRs!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Fergie</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81991</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Fergie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81991</guid>
		<description>@David So why did you use position preference rather than just reducing the CPC?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David So why did you use position preference rather than just reducing the CPC?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81990</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81990</guid>
		<description>@Richard yes ive had to for one client, it can depend on the strength of your brand and how many potential competitors Google decides to show. The higher the traffic the more choices in placements, as the clients brand grew it it proved easier but initially it just didn&#039;t work.

It was much of a choice, it usually was between 1.5 and 2.5 but it kept the client happy and also shaved some % of the average cpc for the brand terms which gives you an even better ROI.

The caveat is that if your competitor is wanting to be in that position and your brand terms leads to sales/leads its sometimes best to be #1 in paid and organic and accept the costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard yes ive had to for one client, it can depend on the strength of your brand and how many potential competitors Google decides to show. The higher the traffic the more choices in placements, as the clients brand grew it it proved easier but initially it just didn&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>It was much of a choice, it usually was between 1.5 and 2.5 but it kept the client happy and also shaved some % of the average cpc for the brand terms which gives you an even better ROI.</p>
<p>The caveat is that if your competitor is wanting to be in that position and your brand terms leads to sales/leads its sometimes best to be #1 in paid and organic and accept the costs.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Fergie</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81989</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Fergie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81989</guid>
		<description>@Tommi You make a very good point - my methodology relies on being able to segment traffic into roughly &#039;equal&#039; buckets. Without the ability to do this I&#039;m not sure what you should do.

@Ulf The issue I am trying to address here is whether or not users would click the organic results if the ads weren&#039;t there. That is what you need to know to decide if PPC is delivering useful *incremental* value. As @David says quality score is very high for brand ads to only looking at the PPC data will show a successful campaign even if it is not delivering incremental value

@David I have never heard of anyone using position preference bidding with brand terms. Generally I am against position preference bidding. Is this something you have done yourself or just an idea you&#039;ve had recently?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tommi You make a very good point &#8211; my methodology relies on being able to segment traffic into roughly &#8216;equal&#8217; buckets. Without the ability to do this I&#8217;m not sure what you should do.</p>
<p>@Ulf The issue I am trying to address here is whether or not users would click the organic results if the ads weren&#8217;t there. That is what you need to know to decide if PPC is delivering useful *incremental* value. As @David says quality score is very high for brand ads to only looking at the PPC data will show a successful campaign even if it is not delivering incremental value</p>
<p>@David I have never heard of anyone using position preference bidding with brand terms. Generally I am against position preference bidding. Is this something you have done yourself or just an idea you&#8217;ve had recently?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81988</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81988</guid>
		<description>@ulf yes i&#039;ve seen that on a number of campaigns, but examine the conversion rates you will likely find that with the correct message its higher.  Also look at bidding for lower positions...

The reason you usually get users only clicking on your brand ads is that your quality score is so much higher than the competitors you are shown at the top just below the search box making it look like the first result, so play with preferred placements :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ulf yes i&#8217;ve seen that on a number of campaigns, but examine the conversion rates you will likely find that with the correct message its higher.  Also look at bidding for lower positions&#8230;</p>
<p>The reason you usually get users only clicking on your brand ads is that your quality score is so much higher than the competitors you are shown at the top just below the search box making it look like the first result, so play with preferred placements :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ulf Weihbold</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81983</link>
		<dc:creator>Ulf Weihbold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81983</guid>
		<description>Hi!
That&#039;s a very good idea to test the &quot;Branding Effect&quot; in PPC; My experiments have shown that there ARE User only clicking on the brand text ads and are not clicking on the organic results...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi!<br />
That&#8217;s a very good idea to test the &#8220;Branding Effect&#8221; in PPC; My experiments have shown that there ARE User only clicking on the brand text ads and are not clicking on the organic results&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tommi Heinonen</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81795</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommi Heinonen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81795</guid>
		<description>Although I could do a time segments I wouldn´t know what data to believe since my traffic varies too much from day to day and from hour to hour. On week monday might be busy and next week it´s the most quiet day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I could do a time segments I wouldn´t know what data to believe since my traffic varies too much from day to day and from hour to hour. On week monday might be busy and next week it´s the most quiet day.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81655</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81655</guid>
		<description>Gruesome picture! But interesting read.

If Pay per click Advertising is to be a cash generator, then one must decide where it makes sense to stop. Maybe one can try experimenting with different efficiency targets to evaluate the ROI for each increment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gruesome picture! But interesting read.</p>
<p>If Pay per click Advertising is to be a cash generator, then one must decide where it makes sense to stop. Maybe one can try experimenting with different efficiency targets to evaluate the ROI for each increment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81575</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81575</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not approving the photo but the concept is very true, in campaigns ive worked on in the past it has be sometimes around 20-30% of my brand traffic, and usually conversion based terms that have been taking by the cannibalized by the PPC agency.  

The problem is that the client doesn&#039;t understand and if the PPC is converting slightly higher and the average CPC is not too high it can be accepted.  The problem  is where the PPC rate paid for brand traffic is not sustainable and can often be the desperate actions of a PPC agency struggling to continuous provide campaign improvements as they promised to the client in their initial pitch.

As for giving a boost, i have certainly seen this but without the direct correlation of data as Google offers some of their bigger advertisers you maybe wasting time arguing with a client. If you decrease or increase PPC it seems to benefit all site traffic.

PPC agencies can benefit from the knowledge gained by the web analyst and it shouldnt be a race to the bottom...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not approving the photo but the concept is very true, in campaigns ive worked on in the past it has be sometimes around 20-30% of my brand traffic, and usually conversion based terms that have been taking by the cannibalized by the PPC agency.  </p>
<p>The problem is that the client doesn&#8217;t understand and if the PPC is converting slightly higher and the average CPC is not too high it can be accepted.  The problem  is where the PPC rate paid for brand traffic is not sustainable and can often be the desperate actions of a PPC agency struggling to continuous provide campaign improvements as they promised to the client in their initial pitch.</p>
<p>As for giving a boost, i have certainly seen this but without the direct correlation of data as Google offers some of their bigger advertisers you maybe wasting time arguing with a client. If you decrease or increase PPC it seems to benefit all site traffic.</p>
<p>PPC agencies can benefit from the knowledge gained by the web analyst and it shouldnt be a race to the bottom&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Teasastips</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81504</link>
		<dc:creator>Teasastips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81504</guid>
		<description>It was actually the photo that kept me reading.  Good post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was actually the photo that kept me reading.  Good post.</p>
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		<title>By: Faire du PPC sur sa marque, est-ce vraiment intéressant? &#124; Philippe Martins</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81454</link>
		<dc:creator>Faire du PPC sur sa marque, est-ce vraiment intéressant? &#124; Philippe Martins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81454</guid>
		<description>[...] Source (Anglais) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source (Anglais) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Paul Aguiar</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81453</link>
		<dc:creator>John Paul Aguiar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81453</guid>
		<description>Man I don&#039;t know what is best. the pic you chose or the post..lol NICE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man I don&#8217;t know what is best. the pic you chose or the post..lol NICE</p>
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		<title>By: Philippe M.</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81452</link>
		<dc:creator>Philippe M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81452</guid>
		<description>Useful trick. I&#039;ve always run campaigns on our brand, now I can see if it&#039;s worth the price :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Useful trick. I&#8217;ve always run campaigns on our brand, now I can see if it&#8217;s worth the price :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.seoptimise.com/blog/2010/03/is-ppc-canabalising-your-brand-traffic.html#comment-81451</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seoptimise.com/?p=3832#comment-81451</guid>
		<description>Ha! That is a truly disturbing photo Richard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! That is a truly disturbing photo Richard!</p>
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